Daily Archives: April 5, 2013

Live Blogging Senate Judiciary Hearing on Gun Bills.

From my live blog over at The Victoria Taft Show facebook page. Please “like” my page! The way Facebook does this is the comments eventually get mixed up. No idea why.

 

  • The Victoria Taft Show So many people who want to testify they have overflow room.
    Like · Reply · 4 · 4 hours ago
  • The Victoria Taft Show Me: is anyone talking about having untrained citizens in schools?
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  • The Victoria Taft Show State Rep Kim Thatcher thanks them for setting an extra long hearing. Asking question: what problem seeking to solve? rash of incidents involving CHL owners causing problems in oregon schools? Horrible tragedies from non background checks by CHL holders? Would these tragedies have been prevented by these bills? I think not. I don’t believe in legislating by trends on twitter but I’ve received scores of emails begging not to pass these bills. How about study on all the psychotics who actually do commit these . Four bill backers have good intentions but these bills against CHL will have unintended consequences. Let’s not pile more restrictions on legal gun owners in Oregon.
    Like · Reply · 2 · 4 hours ago
  • The Victoria Taft Show Luis Martinez of Salem (i think) take emotion out of this today. Let’s talk about facts.Center for health statistics of the Or health authority 32,731 deaths in 2011. 590 unintentional falls. 428 poisonings. 361 cars. 59 died at work. 56 times drowned. 8 accidental deaths. total firearm homicides 61. Impeaching Cease fire Oregon chick and Burdick who said most people die from accidental firearms deaths. Disallowing CHL at schools on you are creating victims. Would you put a sign up saying no guns here in front of a bank? Then why put it in front of your children?
    Like · Reply · 1 · 2 hours ago
  • The Victoria Taft Show Jason Schmidt of Fr33domArms. I’m a vet and I’m law abiding person. These recent shootings involve those on psychotropic drugs. 40% background check number is a lie. 20 year old flawed survey. vote no on these bills. God Bless America.
    Like · Reply · 1 · 2 hours ago
  • The Victoria Taft Show PPB Chief Mike Reese: So much hyperbole on both sides of this issue. Background checks: seen people circumventing back ground checks. Some people not supposed to get guns using loopholes to get guns legally. [Me: what the heck is he talking about?]
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  • The Victoria Taft Show Hales: Unconcealed weapons in schools is bad. Me: who’s open carrying in schools besides cops?
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  • The Victoria Taft Show Roger Fletcher of Dallas, Or. Long time gun owner and hunter. Increased sense of mortality and thinks we need the bills.
  • The Victoria Taft Show David (?) gun collector and gun handler, which is a skill. Thinks gun laws in Oregon are too lax. Supports four bills. Make it harder for people to get guns. SB 796 is overdue. He’s taken extra classes b/c CHL a joke. If person needs to use a weapon and doesn’t know how. [assumes people are dumber than him and don’t want to know how touse guns]
  • The Victoria Taft Show Rick George of McMinnville Lifelong gun owner and hunter. Strong proponent of right to own gun with as few restrictions as possible.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Gary Haycocks (sp?) from Beaverton concerned citizen. NRA member. Oppose bills. Find it disconcerting that a history teacher would come here and testify against something our founders clearly wanted us to have. He needs to study history.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Lobbyist Paul Phillips of the National Shooting Sports Association. SB 700 opposed to it. 7k employees covered by this group. Thinks this stuff is federal issue.
  • The Victoria Taft Show woman says lawmakers are using the wrong nomenclature: word assault is a verb. A rifle can’t do that on its own. Putting together ‘assault’ and ‘rifle’ is a misnomer.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Patrick Lasswell and SB 700 profile and persecution of homosexuals in Oregon. Can’t pass firearm to domestic partners. Veteran whose personal info was compromised by govt clerk who left behind a lap top. All bills are bad laws because they feed the monster. SB 700 encourages govt to become the monster. It just means that my brother and his husband are just one step closer to putting a pink triangle on his kids.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Eric Crossen pediatrician at OHSU. He and Oregon Pediatric Society in support of SB 700. Greatest threats to kids not cancer but gun violence are among the top three causes of accidental deaths.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Irene Gilbert Gun Shop Owner in La Grande. Multiple problems with current system. Computers often down. Sometimes approvals take as long as a month. My husband can’t get his Fed Firearms License because of being drunk in public in Bellingham, WA more than 40 years ago. I encourage everyone to get a CHL permit.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Professor Susan Smith from Willamette University Law School says the four bills don’t violate the 2A. “I personally support all four bills.” SB 700 will close some loop holes in gun checks. “If we wanted to stop Sandy Hooks we would ban semi automatic rifles and large magazines, period.” “My son is a junior in college and he is interning with DEA and is going to go into houses with drug dealers who have these guns that were purchased on the streets with private sales. I want this bill to protect law enforcement and my son”
  • The Victoria Taft Show Manuel Martinez born in Cuba and American citizen for 40 years. I oppose all efforts to disturb the second amendment of the United State. In 1959 revolutionaries masquerading as Democrats took over my nation. They were communists, Marxists. They took away the rights of the people to their guns. Rights aren’t given by govenrment but given by God. No one has authority to give it away. My fight for freedom will end only with my death. You people don’t know what freedom is because yo’ve never lost it. You haven’t been through tortures, begging for your son’s life because all he wanted was to be free. We are open the same way that Cuba was open for communism…like other countries. gun control doesn’t protect citizens the only reason for the gun control …government to protect from them citizens. In that way government can manipulate and subjugate the people. [whoa this guy’s awesome].
  • The Victoria Taft Show Greg Terhune Vietnam Vet, NRA member, firearms teacher and security teacher. I’m wondering how many school districts in this state allow the Eddie Eagle in the schools I don’t think there are many.Opposes all four bills. None of these bills make people safer. These bills disenfranchise the poor in this state. Makes it more cumbersome and expensive for people to defend themselves.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Gordon ___ US naval veteran 2A Don’t infringe on it. Fail to understand how these bills could have been drafted under the 2A much less passed. He’s lecturing on the right to revolution as a matter of sovereignty as well as the means to have a revolution. [hee] time to throw off such despotism. while tragedies are obvious but what’s more tragic is the lack of acknowledgement that an armed person could have stopped shooters.
  • The Victoria Taft Show West Linn CPA wants a tax credit toward purchase of fire arm cabinet and gun safe. Tax credits work. We’re behind saving energy. Shouldn’t we be behind saving lives.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Elaine Smith from Salem SB 347 doesn’t put more guns in school. Not making teachers become armed guards. Fatal advantage against children by bad guys with guns. SB699 confusingly written. Was for it, not anymore. It makes it appear that you’re redefining public areas. SB 700 SB 790 needs further amendment there is no license to own a gun just to conceal carry. Law abiding citizens are there to protect themselves.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Doug Berry Mc Minnville [has ‘the voice] worked with Avel Gordly. Misdirected bills being considered here. Sandy Hook principal a hero charging the shooter. Imagine if she’d had a gun. [I’m surprised more people don’t make this point. I’ve always found it compelling]
  • The Victoria Taft Show Sam Sapp: Against all four bills. Lost focus on real criminals.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Greg Buretto La Grande SB 347 prohibiting carrying on school. No evidence of emergency and would harm public safety. All major recent shootings in gun free zones. Nick Mele stopped Clackamas Shooting.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Sen Whisnant absurd fines and absurd requirements for live fire training. All four bills have emergency clause which deny Oregonians ability to refer to voters. Could be used to include all four bills in one act.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Scott Heron: Teacher at Tualatin HS and gun owner. I asked the kids what they want. They felt intimidated. They would not want to be in school they’d want alternative education. [Let’s see, after being taught how evil weapons are I’m sure the kids are the unbiased authority]. We don’t know what weapons are on campus. They decided to be a hero but they’re not trained in it.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Tualatin school official. Support sSB 347 to bar weapons on school grounds.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Bill Sherritts from Albany. Former Coast Guardsman and small arms trainer. Brings up Kip Kinkel. None of the mass shootings done by CHL holder. Protect the sheep by creating more sheep. Sandy Hook was a gun free zone and locked. Adam Lanza shot his way in. Police won’t get there in time. Lanza and Kinkel killed their parents before they shot up schools. What laws will they follow? All due respect to Texas, this Texas light stuff isn’t helpful.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Wally Schultz Safety Administrator and safety engineer, risk managment society,hazmat commission board member. NRA training counselor. American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers. Accident investigator. Brother Roger committed suicide with a gun. Empirical evidence. Undeniable scientific truths. Safety is attitudinal. Programs don’t work unless administered and enforced from top down. We already have laws, rules on the books but if they’re not followed or enforced they’re no better than the ink on the paper. If you fix the culture you’ll help fix problem,
  • The Victoria Taft Show Kruse: federal government hasn’t passed a budget in four years so there’s no budget to talk about. How do you build a school to prevent these things unless you’re building prisons? He’s asking this of the School Employees Association.
  • The Victoria Taft Show This woman doesn’t like NRA. NRA is not your friend.
  • The Victoria Taft Show buffering issues
  • The Victoria Taft Show Julene Johnson is an aide to Rep Keny Guyer and PSU student. [She also sounds like she speaks thru a bullhorn]. Liberals and conservatives can agree on these bills. Her personal goal to ‘actualize’ change in Oregon SB700 “opportunity for progress.” My fellow oregonians
  • The Victoria Taft Show Michael Stein of SE Portland. Mental health therapist. In support of all the bills and all the mental health help $$ in budget. College campuses are extremely stressful environments. Schizophrenia often hits at that age. No place for guns. At community colleges, where he teaches, people are too emotional. If more people had been more killed at CTC we would have a more comprehensive law like Colorado & Connecticut. Please don’t wait till that happens here.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Ed Edwards Oregon School Employees Association in favor of SB 347. Priority that no guns in schools except for law enforcement and fully trained security guards. It’s a first step. Need to focus on student safety. “There’s no place in our schools for guns. Let’s get off the table. let’s get rid of guns in our schools.” Security is a local responsibility. School inhabitants should be kept safe by design. Not bars on windows but designed in such a way that it can’t happen here. “guns have no place in that environemtn”
  • The Victoria Taft Show Dennis says stop creating gun free zones.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Greg Miller Oregon Gun Owners. CHL holders are law abiding. Stats show violent crimes are not often perpetrated by CHL holders. Less than 1/2% very few w/firearms. We need to talk about access to our public schools; unfettered access to schools as was the case at Sandy Hook, needs to change. Seems intuitive that someone who goes to all trouble of getting CHL would have fired the weapon before. Criminals will commit crimes. Governor’s suggestion about mental health is a good one. That and watching what video games our kids watch will be helpful.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Carolyn Wendell I represent three teenage girls 1966 raped, kidnapped. I was one of those girls. There are so many levels of pain. Two of the other girls are dysfunctional (recluse, anorexic). She was encouraged to take a conceal carry permit class. It was so empowering.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Retired military person says the bills would outlaw baseball bats, paper cutters, tools. Too many people will become criminals because many people won’t follow these laws. Kids who have committed these atrocities have never been taught how to tolerate stress, they’re medicated. CTC shooting when confronted with a trained person with a gun. Everytime you make a law taking something else away from us you take us closer to a dictatorship and farther away from a republic. They can’t enforce the laws they have on the books now. You took the Texas range requirements. A woman with a .25 hitting a target at 45 feet? too short a barrel.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Sets state policy to allow school districts with opt out. Kruse asks Prozanski if he’s equally happy with an opt in politcy. [hee]
  • The Victoria Taft Show Missed this witness. . Lars called. I’ll be on his show on 1:30. Sounds like she’s on OASB, however.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Sam Lee on school board, NRA member, OASB member. About local control for him. Thinks SB 347 is a great idea. [of course it’s a gutting of the current law]
  • The Victoria Taft Show Stan is Newberg school board member? Law abiding citizen CHL holder chose not to carry it concealed caused disruption three times a day. We as a school district should have ability to control whether we should have those firearms in our buildings.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Bobbie Regan PPS School Board member and OSBA board member. Pleased to support SB 347 (keeping guns off property).[She probably doesn’t want boy scouts or recruiters on school prop either.] 12 resource officers to watch over 80 schools. “We take school safety very seriously.”
  • The Victoria Taft Show Levay Jeffries representing us little guys who are law abiding citizens. I drive a school bus, am a grandpa, help boy scouts with shooting and responsible firearms training. On these bills: they don’t solve any of the problems that we’ve had. Really all it does is make me a felon if I make a mistake and carry a gun on the school grounds.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Greg Stohl paramedic for AMR in Mult Co. works night shift as paramedic. Seen everything. Laws before committee? Most of those are gang members and often involve other instruments of injury that wouldn’t be affected by any of these laws. People go thru communities and sell guns out of their cars. These bills wouldn’t stop that. Providing kids w/opportunity jobs training, mental health system changes, anti bullying efforts would help. These bills won’t.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Sen Esquival Situation in Medford about Shirley Katz a teacher at school. Sandyhook horrible but not worst thiing that ever happened at a school happened in 1930’s. Sandy Hook shooter broke 41 laws. I really don’t think 42 will matter to him. An insane person will hurt someone no matter what. On bill with firing range test, 5th page, line 25 … two shots? How do you do that with a five shot revolver? Prozanski says it could be changed via amendment.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Sen Ferrioli people have heart felt concern for families for Clackamas Town Center and other places where people have been harmed by the criminally insane. I understand the impulse of people to call on legislators to make it stop. We have to admit to ourselves that reason doesn’t reach criminally insane.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Sylvia Depew retired school teacher. She tells them this teacher has not prepared her speech [professionals call this speaking too long]. Parents walks into conference with gun. Told her to take her gun and put it away. [Nothing happened but she considered this a breach of some sort] Says she would defend herself against mentally ill angry person who had a gun by talking to him. She’s a good shot though she claims. Somebody she knows shot dogs and threatened her son. As expected, Sylvia’s unprepared remarks result in disjointed rambling. Please write down your comments, people!
  • The Victoria Taft Show Elise Gautier of Cease fire Oregon. People forced to send kids to schools where CHL permits can bring guns to school. We can do something about the violence. Based on a conservative estimate 14-22K firearms are purchased privately. Privately sold guns show they are eager to avoid background checks.
  • The Victoria Taft Show Mark Callahan of Salem, NRA member, Gun owner. quotes 2A. SB 347 affects personal choice and makes k-12 buildings separately defined to keep guns away. Boggles the mind that this legislature would want to create more vicitms. Sandyhook shooter took guns from his mother. No laws passed here would change that. Overreach of govt. Legislature makes attempt to legislate every area of our lives. Solution searching for a problem. Plain and simple is to create gun free zones. As Colorado shooting sought out theatre that was gun free. Criminals don’t follow the law, that’s why they’re criminals. vote no on all the bills.
    Like · Reply · 3 hours ago · Edited

Oregon Gun Bills Heard Today Would Not Have Stopped Sandy Hook.

Oregon lawmakers will hear testimony today on a package of gun bills (list sandy_hook_victimsbelow) that have survived the legislative process and whose sole goal appear to be to harass legal concealed handgun license holders. 

The bills were trotted out as a response to the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings. Cease Fire Oregon and their personal lackey, State Senator Ginny Burdick, blew the dust off the covers of the bills and cynically began circulating them through the Oregon State Capitol within hours of the shootings.  Channeling Rahm Emanuel, they cynically thought Aha, here’s our chance let’s not let a crisis go to waste!

The bills were horrible. Worse, not one of these bills would have stopped a crazed man from bursting into a school and shooting children. Not one. In fact, they made it more likely that such a thing could happen by disarming people on school grounds. Among the parade of horribles: limiting to one the number of hand guns an individual could have and making illegal most of the pistols now on the market. Subjecting citizens to spot checks of their homes every year! Not allowing law abiding concealed handgun licensees from carrying their guns onto school campuses. Reducing magazine capacity. Why? To give the unarmed CHL holder a chance to not shoot the bad guy when he reloaded?

The bills left standing are these (thanks to Oregon Firearms Federation and Fr33dom Arms for the brief descriptors):

Senate Bill 347 – Makes it a Class C Felony for a concealed handgun license (CHL) holder to carry a firearm onto school grounds unless the school district or other entity controlling the school grounds has an adopted written policy authorizing an exemption for CHL holders.

Senate Bill 699 – Bans concealed handgun license (CHL) holders from carrying in the state Capitol unless they receive written permission from the Legislative Administrator.

Senate Bill 700 – Criminalizes private transfers of firearms with others excluding immediate family. Such background checks would either have to be conducted directly through the Department of State Police or a through a licensed gun dealer, who may charge an unspecified fee. What’s more, the Department of State Police would be required to maintain the background information they obtain for a period of five years! Such “universal background checks” are enforced by gun registration that enables future gun confiscation.

Senate Bill 796 – Requires that an individual applying for a Concealed Handgun License must first “pass” a comprehensive firing range test.

Excuse me, but what do any of these bills do to stop a school shooting? Would Kip Kinkel have been more acceptable if he’d had a CHL and been required to pass a comprehensive firing range test? Or, being the criminal that he is, would he ignore the law and go ahead and murder his parents and shoot kids in the cafeteria at Thurston High School? 

How would the gun census that Burdick proposes have stopped Sandy Hook? 

The bottom line here is that Ginny Burdick is using the recent school shooting tragedy to attempt to pass laws whose sole purpose is to harass gun owners because she has an irrational fear of guns and she wants to be seen as doing something. No doubt Cease Fire and Brady provide her with campaign donations every election cycle as well.

Burdick is like the mom who puts her daughter on lock down because another kid down the street snuck out one night.

Put another way by the US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.,

Great cases like hard cases make bad law. For great cases are called great, not by reason of their importance in shaping the law of the future, but because of some accident of immediate overwhelming interest which appeals to the feelings and distorts the judgement.

The Sandy Hook shooting was horrible. These laws will not redeem those children’s lives. Those 20 children’s lives have been snapped off, like someone ripping a daffodil off its stem leaving a jagged stub.

The parents must now live with the woulda, coulda, shoulda’s in life because their children are dead. I know all too well that feeling and its lifetime of fall out because of my daughter died, in this case of chicken pox, and I and my family have been left with those same questions. What if there had been a vaccine available at that time? Could we have gotten her a heart transplant in time? Where would she be going to college now? What would her sticky up red hair have looked like now? Would her sister be different and happier if she’d lived? Furthermore, I know that I wanted to do anything in my power to make sure her death was not in vain. I lobbied for a vaccine–which was coming anyway–and I wanted to make sure people stopped deliberately exposing their children to this potentially deadly disease. I suppose we could have lobbied for a bill outlawing chickenpox or forcing parents to vaccinate their children but that would have been impotent and foolish and taken away the parents’ choices for their children.

Yesterday I heard some of the parents of Sandy Hook take comfort in the passage of laws against legal gun owners in Connecticut. They intimated that it felt good to something. Those laws will do nothing to stop the next school shooting as long as schools remain gun free zones. 

Their efforts might be better spent raising funding and awareness about mental illness, violence and autism. That will only occur to them later when the fog of their grief has lifted and after they’ve chipped away at constitutional rights of citizens who had nothing whatsoever to do with the killing of their children. 

In Oregon, Ginny Burdick should remember that too.