Pilot: Dear President Obama, Please Investigate Jimmy Carter for Torture

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Don’t know if this is apocryphal or not, but I sure hope it’s true.

Tell ’em where you saw it. Http://www.victoriataft.com

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25 thoughts on “Pilot: Dear President Obama, Please Investigate Jimmy Carter for Torture

  1. The Righties are getting desperate to divert the attention from the Torture President. First Clinton, now Carter. It won’t be long before Grover Cleveland is in their sights. If the consequences were not so severe to the victims it would be fun to watch the righties squirming to defend the immorality of torture

  2. 4 years of Carter was more torture than any country should endure.

    mini, keep envisioning Pelsoi being frog marched out of the Speakers office.

    I am.

  3. “A towel was fixed under the chin and down over the face. Then many buckets of water were poured into the towel so that the water gradually reached the mouth and rising further eventually also the nostrils, which resulted in his becoming unconscious and collapsing like a person drowned. This procedure was sometimes repeated 5-6 times in succession.”

    This quotation is taken from the testimony of an American prisoner of war who testified about the, yes, torture he endured at the hand of his captures during the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, aka the Tokyo War Crimes Trials.

    Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of Doolittle’s raiders, also testified that after he was captured he “was given several types of torture. . . . I was given what they call the water cure.” He was asked what he felt when the Japanese soldiers poured the water. “Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning,” he replied, “just gasping between life and death.”

    Japanese soldiers were convicted of War Crimes based on this testimony. The fact that many of you here think that waterboarding is just marvelous, says more about the appaling state of your morality than any single action you could defend.

    How does it feel to be on the side of history with those who tortured Americans during WWII?

    It’s just simply pathetic that your complete, brain-dead adherence to your despotic ideology combined with your irrational hatred for President Obama will lead you to justified the most vile of behaviors. Who wants to be first from this “America ♥ Torture” crowd to apologies to the Japanese soldiers who were convicted of War Crimes?

    You people don’t deserve America, but look at the bright side: with your love of pain and death, you all would’ve made splendid Nazis.

    “But we were just following orders.”

  4. Hey mini-woody, that’s what the Japanese did.

    Can’t you post anything relevant to what was done to two murdering sleaze bags to gain information that prevented possibly millions of innocent deaths?

    Or, are you implying that our Troops are cruel and gruesome torturers?

    You have yet to adequately define torture or to show what was actually done as real torture. Panties on the head isn’t really torture.

    Yes, you all make every effort to make waterboarding out as the Japanese did 70 years ago, but somehow, you never quite make the full connection, just implications.

    C’mon, mini-woody, we know you despise America and hate everything freedom and liberty means, but have some intellectual honesty.

    Is the Japanese/Nazi comparison today’s Moveon.org taking point?

  5. Yes, severe consequences. After a few minutes enduring the illusion of drowning, they go back to their cells and are handed a menu of foods that are painstakingly deferential to their religious convictions. Such cruelty.

  6. Japanese military leaders were also convincted of war crimes for the mere act of starting a war by a suprise attack on a military target. The International Military Tribunal for the Far East wasn’t always particularly concerned with whether the facts justified their rulings. I can concede that what is being described sounds mildly like waterboarding (although we do not have any details as to how the waterboarding was conducted by the interrogators) but the “water cure” that the gentleman refers to was the large-scale forcefeeding of water to a prisoner whereupon the torturer would often jump upon their distended stomach.

    Torture was not conducted in this instance and thus, no one who is defending it is a supporter of torture as you allege.

  7. Lew — you’re as pathetic as they come. For you and others of your ilk, the ends always justify the means, and, yes, any soldier who participated in torture, and any official who ordered it — ANY official — ought to tried and if found guilty, punished. Waterboarding is torture, and torture is a war crime, and you, and other like you, embrace it.

    And if the only way we can protect ourselves is to turn into the fascists torturers and war criminals you’d like us to be, then let’s just call it a day, and embrace the right-wing totalitarianism in which you guys love to wallow. Right here and now we can put an end to the pretense that America is different from the religious fundamentalists it’s fighting.

    Like I said: Splendid Nazis.

    Of course, your feeble, neo-con little brain can’t quite grasp the notion that Americans don’t act like barbarians, at least the civilized ones don’t (which of course leaves you free to pull the wings off flies at will).

    But if you can think about this with blowing a head gasket, here’s a little hypothetical for you to consider. Do it slowly — then you won’t hurt yourself.

    If means justify the ends (a central tenet of fascist, right-wing dogma, as you’ve proven), and the end is to prevent a terrorist attack, then if we have the three-year-old daughter of the suspected master-mind of the attack in custody, you’d have no problem water boarding her on live TV (think of the ad revenue for Fox) in an attempt to get her father to spill the beans. Following your monstrous views, this is perfectly acceptable, since we’re protecting the country (or at least we’re told we are).

    That is how depraved and perverted and irredeemable you and your views are. Again, you don’t deserve America or its ideals.

    America began in a violent revolution and has sustained itself through invasions, a Civil War (started by people like you), two world wars, a depression and a Cold War. And if, God forbid, it is attacked again by terrorists, it will survive that too, and unless torture fetishists like you manage to take over, it will survive with its morality and ideals intact.

    America does not torture, and thank God that President Obama is trying to make that a reality again. The fact that this is even being debated shows just how deep into a right-wing sewer Bush, Cheney and your whole gang managed to sink this country.

    But we’re doing something about it now.

  8. mini-woody monroe, just prove aor show that what was done was actually torture as you claim.

    And you call us pathetic?

    Why not take you little commie butt to Cuba and see how well you thrive down there?

    Then again, when the terrorists are setting off ieds in your neighborhood, please call a peace activist to save your sorry butt, not one of our “nazi troops.”

    Better yet, just stand before a suicide bomber and yell, “Hope and change! Yes we can!”

    Back when a few Democrats still somewhat cared about America, they handled matters differently then you whiners of today. How better we all might be if the Bama Followed FDR

  9. The ends justify the means if the means are required for the ends. If it is required to obtain detailed knowledge of a terrorist attack by enhanced interrogation techniques for the end of preventing that attack, then the end has justified the means. If it is not required to obtain this detailed knowledge by those techniques then the end has not been justified by the means. What we have is a situation where we are being deliberately denied knowledge of the ends while told to accept on faith that the ends cannot justify the means employed. Without a certain factual relationship between specific means and specific ends, it’s a discussion of philosophy with one side of that discussion openly motivated to find a way to discredit their despised opposition and turn a philosophical difference into a criminal prosecution. Without the full truth, we are ill-equipped to make an informed judgement although liberals seem to be demanding that we make the judgement in ignorance and slavishly support a crusade they’ve been preparing for since George Bush was elected in 2000. In a sense, this entire affair is their salvation: it’s the first time they’ve even had the shadow of a legitimate argument.

    You are right, Miles, that America does not torture; hoewever, it has also never tortured so Obama does not represent a “return to decency”, just a return to the liberal means of winning an argument: either shouting the other person down or getting someone to declare them the winner without a contest. As to your hypothetical scenario with the 3-year-old, it is a clever invocation of the ultimate logic of “ends justify the means” but it has no practicality since no one has even gotten close to proposing the use of proxy interrogation to elicit information.

  10. As to the blog entry you point to, the argument is comprehensive and solid but has a serious flaw to it: the writer is assuming that the interrogators are using the waterboarding methodology that SERE demonstrates. The problem with this assumption is that SERE is demonstrating a form of waterboarding where it is being used for the purpose of punishment or by people who are not concerned with obtaining detailed and correct information. Using waterboarding for interrogation would require modifying the SERE method so that water does not get into the prisoner’s lungs. It would, of a neccessity, be simulated drowning instead of literal drowning. Lest one forgets, the purpose for which it is alleged that waterboarding was used was as a coertion mechanism to get information. A dead or seriously ill prisoner either cannot give you further information or is in a state where they cannot be vigorously interrogated for some time. It would thus be in the best interests of an interrogator administering waterboarding to ensure that water does not get into the prisoner’s lungs because fluid in the lungs can lead to a vast array of serious problems from pneumonia to a collapsed lung to dry drowning–and could even lead to temporary oxygen deprivation which would put a valuable source of information in danger. If you are trying to get information and decide that a form of waterboarding is neccessary to do so, the risk of using the SERE method that this blogger describes would be unacceptable. Given all of this, we can safely assume that whatever specific mechanics are changed for interragatory waterboarding, there are significant differences which weakens this blogger’s argument by putting in doubt one of the assumptions that his entry is predicated on.

  11. Even Repubicant Bonehead Bohner admits that it is torture. Slip of the tongue. Keep dreamin’ righties, your Kleague will soon be paraded in front of the American people for sentancing.

  12. Keep dreaming, Me. A lie may travel halfway around the world while the truth is still pulling its boots on but while a lie can outpace the truth for a time, the truth always catches up. The truth isn’t the administration’s friend.

  13. “America does not torture, and thank God that President Obama is trying to make that a reality again. The fact that this is even being debated shows just how deep into a right-wing sewer Bush, Cheney and your whole gang managed to sink this country.

    But we’re doing something about it now.”What would that be? Oh I know, the red easy button. Didn’t Hillary give all those away to China?

  14. If we’re going to do this retro prosecution, let’s do it right.

    FDR needs to be resurrected and sent to prison for violating the rights of Japanese citizens.

    Truman needs to go to prison for killing all those Japanese citizens and allowing millions of Europeans to be raped and murdered by the Soviets.

    Jimmy Carter needs to be jailed for getting all those CIA agents he deliberately got killed.

    JFK and LBJ need to be jailed for murdering all those Vietnamese.

    Ted Kennedy needs to go to jail for murdering his mistress and her unborn child.

    Bill Clinton needs to go to prison for getting American soldiers killed in Somalia and allowing bin Laden to do what he did.

    Janet Reno needs to be executed for mass murder of men, women and children at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

    Benedict Arlen (Specter) needs to go to prison for helping cover up the Democrat Party’s assassination of JFK.

  15. If it was considered torture, when done to our people, why would it not be considered torture when done by our people to other people?

    If enough people believe that torture is ok, for getting information, then perhaps it is time for the US to withdraw from the Geneva Convention.

    I am not arguing for or against torture for information (I have mixed feelings on the issue, but do tend toward being against torture).

    I am only saying
    IF we (as a country) do torture, we should withdraw from the Geneva Convention.

    IF we have convicted others, for doing some torture act toward our soldiers, then we (as a country) have recognized the act as being torture.

    The measure of an action being right or wrong (legal or illegal) should not depend on the political party the individual belongs to.

  16. Related to the letter,
    There are certain schools in the Military, that people VOLUNTEER for, that do have the type of training described in the letter.

    The training is to prepare these people, who are in the most likely positions to be subjected to enemy torture, to better endure (and survive) it.
    I believe all of these schools are voluntary, and that those in them can quit them.
    There are certain jobs, that are only for those who were willing to endure the type of training described in the letter.

    I do wonder though, why Victoria would hope the letter is true?
    Is it that she hopes that those in certain positions, within our military have this type of Training; or does she just hope there is something negative, to be used against Carter?

  17. Yeah, Eileen… it’s called the SERE School and is indeed volunteered for.

    I believe that Victoria hopes this letter is real because it demonstrates how absurd the current babbling about “torture” is. The pilot is pointing out that if you’re really all that hung up about waterboarding, perhaps everyone who’s gone through the SERE School should be able to file a class-action lawsuit against every administration that the SERE School has existed in.

    As to your question about it being considered torture when it was done to our people… actually, the thing that was done to our people was not the same thing being debated right now. There isn’t a double standard.

    I actually support withdrawing from the Geneva Convention anyway because it would remove any illusions scared little UN bureaucrats have that they have any authority whatsoever over the United States. I believe that the US ought to agree to help enforce penalties against nations that violate the Conventions after signing them but should not be a party itself.

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