From constitutional law attorney and Director of the Defense of Veterans Memorials Project of the American Legion, Rees Lloyd, who says the Veterans Administration has dictated that folds 11 and 12 of the flag folding ceremony invoking the Christian and Jewish God have been cleansed from the ceremony due to complaints.
I salute you for breaking the news on the VA banning of the Flag Folding Ceremony at National Cemeteries. It is an outrage. I anticipate the California State Veterans Cemeteries will do the same thing, surrendering to secular-cleansing atheists and the ACLU, or Muslims who are offended by our American history or heritage being evidenced in the public square. That is, after all, a Christian heritage informed by Biblical judaic and Christian values and principles. Not a single Muslim participated in the creation of America, but they most definitely contributing to its destruction.
From Focus on the Family is the explanation of the ceremony:
“The first fold of our flag is a symbol of life. The second fold is a symbol of our belief in the eternal life.” Folds 11 and 12 are the ones that led the atheists to challenge.“The eleventh fold, in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The twelfth fold, in the eyes of a Christian citizen, represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost.”But the Air Force has replaced that unofficial script with an official one that contains no religious references. [emphasis added]
This is the way in which members of the service expect to be remembered and celebrated. Atheists are saying no.
27 comments:
There needs to be a "SEPARATION of ATHEISTS" and State.
Flag folds have no official symbolism: One may create a flag ceremony that talks of American values, but it is complete hooey to claim that there is any particular symbolism attached to folding the flag. Flag etiquette, for years the domain of the U.S. Marine Corps, the American Legion and the Boy Scouts of America (BSA), is now prescribed by a section of U.S. law (without teeth) generally known as the U.S. Flag Code, 4 USC 1. Were there official symbolism to folding the flag, that is where it would be prescribed. Checking the law, we find no such symbolism. The U.S. flag code does not prescribe or describe any method of folding the flag. The triangular fold we teach Boy Scouts, used by the military honor guards, is actually a naval invention. Flags folded in that fashion can be attached to a lanyard and hoisted immediately — and the flag will neatly unfurl as it goes up. We use the fold on land for the same reason. It’s a traditional fold that predates our flag.
The solution to this one seems so simple, that it baffles me that people make an issue of it.
Base the ceremony on the Soldier's wishes, or if those are not know, the wishes of the family.
Each soldier has their religion stamped on their dog tags, and indicated in their records.
I thought this was so that if killed, treatment of the dead body could be in accordance with the soldier's religious beliefs.
It is flag folding. The folding of an inanimate object which has great meaning to some.
It is harmless to others, why would they care?
Do they lack any worthwhile causes to spend their time on.
Victoria, it appears you have been had (again) by a reichwing blogger. A quick googling and checks with the VA and Willamette National Cemetery reveal no such directive. Apparently Rees Lloyd is the only repository for this story. Do you have a copy and reference for the directive that you can publish?
kloin, I think you aren't finding much because this is a news item from well over a year ago.
Phony Lew...You're wrong.
Ask the American Legion which presides over these displays.
Saying they mean nothing doesn't make it so.
Victoria, it is only meaningless to phonies like wannabeme.
The guys folding these flags ought to go ahead with the ceremony in the tried and true ritual and let the VA and their atheist friends go to Hell. After all, the VA and the atheists are not the ones being honored here, nor are they the ones receiving the flag at the end of this ritual.
One other thing: The VA doesn't have too good a reputation right now, looking back at the fiasco at Walter Reed a year or so ago. Now they are letting a very few atheists dictate policy to them?
Don't be such a fool Scottiebill. Just because you are a rightie does not mean you have to be so gullible. There is no VA directive.
No basis in fact. Condemn the VA if you will, but not for this. It never happened
Iago: If you had bothered to read the post Victoria put up here, you would have seen that the VA is the one banning the recitation of the flag-folding ceremony. Also, I had heard on another talk show, not Victoria's or Lars', that it was the VA doing this because a few atheists were complaining.
You don't have your facts straight all the time. But, like all libs, you can't let facts get in the way of your positions on things.
You are the one who does not have his facts straight. Neither you nor Victoria can produce a VA directive or a news story from a reputable news source, only hearsay from som rightwing blog. The burden is on you to back up your statement with facts and you don't have any. Hearing on another talk show does not cut it.
iago: So if you didn't hear it or read it yourself, it just is not so.
Is that correct? I thought as much.
As President Reagan said: "Trust but verify." You are unable to verify. By the way, how long have you spent trying, but unable, to prove me wrong????
Iago: It took me about 2 minutes to find what you are apparently unable or unwilling to do: To find where the VA has banned the word "God" from the Flag-folding ceremony. I simply Googled "Leaving God out of the flag-folding ceremony". On the first screen that came up, I went to the 4th reference and clickec on it. Do a bit of reading and you will find that what I posted is correct. The VA has banned "God" from the flag-folding ceremony in all 22 National cemeteries afgter being pressured by the ACLU because a few atheists and the Islamists did their usual whining about it.
See. That wasn't so hard, now was it?
How about sharing your specific source with the rest of us? Is there a problem? Still no VA directive or reputable news source. I wonder why Victoria is silent.
scottibill, save yourself further embarrassment and just call the VA and Willamette National Cemetery as I did. Victoria is just pulling your leg.
iago and kloin: Why don't you two Google the site like I did. Or maybe you two get off on excoriating anyone that proves you wrong.
Maybe that's it. But since you apparently aren't going to do that, then there is no hope left for you, at all.
Why in the world won't you provide the link????? Is it that hard???
I will believe the VA and Willamette National Cemetery until someone produces some credible evidence. Scottiebill, refusing to provide a source and asking someone to Google to prove your point is lame. Don't be such a weasel. If you don't have a credible source just say so.
So scottiebill is caught phonying up support for a whopper. Shame on you scottiebill for humiliating conservatives. Don't you know when to shut up?
iago, kloin, and rightwingwacko: Is it so hard for you guys to Google the words I gave you? If you have the ambition, which I doubt, scroll down to the first inset link that starts with "Dishonoring God --". From there you will get "Sword at the Ready." Then start reading through it. Maybe then you will find what it took me just 2 minutes to find.
Do you guys think you can do that without too much trouble and without jumping on me for something you apparently don't really want to find? Or that will prove you wrong.
But, of course, if you are afraid of the truth in all this, then that is your loss and my gain.
Try it. You might be enlightened, at least in this little debate.
Somehow, though, I doubt it.
And to rightwingwacko: Why in the world would I want to shut up about this? Just so I would give in and quit while I'm ahead? And let you sit back and chortle in your beer that you got me to back off? At best, that's laughable. At, worst, at least for you, it ain't gonna happen. Not now. Not ever.
Sorry scottiebill I did not realize that you do not know what a link is. You don't pass muster.
I assume you are referring to the following in the October 9, rightwing blog Sword at the Ready:
"This is essentially breaking news, it is so outrageous that blood was boiling last evening when it was revealed. The efforts to remove any vestige or mention of God from America has now made it’s way to the funerals of American Veterans."
Last evening at the Restoring Our Heritage Annual Fall Banquet, Keynote Speaker Rees Lloyd, former ACLU attorney and Commander of the American Legion District 21, revealed that a directive was just handed down last week that the FLAG FOLDING CEREMONY at funerals honoring military veterans will be BANNED IMMEDIATELY."
This is not a news story. It is not from a reputable news source and is in fact false. Hearsay upon hearsy. You should have no problem finding a directive from the VA or a news story on this if it is in fact true. As you found out, you can't
Have you called the VA and Willamette Valley Cemetery yet? If not, why not? You are one deluded rightie.
So, iago: I am a deluded rightie. I suppose you are correct, but in only half of your learned assessment. I am not deluded. No more than you think of yourself as a "deluded leftie".
Your speaker at meeting you referred to is a former ACLU attorney, you said. The ACLU is about as far left at anything can get. They consistently go to bat for ANY outfit that is against just about anything the true Americans want. Their founder is a convicted criminal, for God's sake. And you would believe anything he or his minions offer up? And you call me deluded?
The former ACLU attorney is Rees Lloyd. If you choose not to believe what he supposedly said then you don't believe the story. You need to reed Victoria's post more closely
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CA_VETERAN_CEREMONIES_CAOL-?SITE=CAANR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
http://www.startribune.com/484/story/1507720.html
Two sources right there iago. Hope the ACLU isn't the ones defending you on judgment day.
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